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  • Oh, I want to wash this debt right out of my hair...

    Hi Everybody.
    In 2008 I got into financial difficulties with a number of credit cards but with the help of family I managed to settle all but one, a Halifax credit card (2005), who told me that I was too late to settle as it had been passed to a debt agency and it has been a dead weight ever since . My understanding, which I now think is my error, has always been that this debt was sold to Moorcroft. I had been paying Moorcroft on a monthly basis when out of the blue, I received a letter from the PRA Group October 16 stating that they had purchased the outstanding balance with Lloyds TSB Bank plc... I contacted PRA as I was confused as to what was happening. They told me that the debt had always been theirs and Moorcroft had been collecting it on their behalf. This did not seem right to me so I asked them for a copy of the notice of assignment. This verbal request took place in Nov 16 and to date, I have still not received a copy, even though I have made several verbal requests.
    In the meantime, I have been making monthly payments to PRA and have even tried to settle, again with assistance from family, but they rejected my offer and countered with an unachievable amount. This triggered me to send a CCA request, which I sent in October 17.
    So far the correspondence/contact has been as follows
    Oct 17 - PRA returned my £1 fee and said that they have requested the information required and placed the account on hold.
    6 weeks later - Nov 17 - letter received stating they have currently deemed the debt unenforceable but are awaiting further documentation. Also enclosed printout of monthly statements.
    2 days later - Nov 17 - letter received with some sort of printout which looks like agreement and instruction to call them within 10 days to come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle outstanding balance (£8900).
    6 days later - Phone call from PRA wanting to discuss debt and arrange settlement. I advised them that I had never received a notice of assignment and that I required a copy before going any further. They said they would send a copy and put the account on hold for another week.
    2 days later - PRA phoned again for the same reason as above. The previous caller had not updated their records with the conversation and so I had to go through the whole notice of assignment conversation again.
    I have just re- read the letter I received from Moorcroft in March 2009 and the wording says that they have been instructed by Halifax to collect the overdue debt. On looking into this further, my understanding is that Moorcroft are a debt collection agency and PRA are a debt purchasing company. Is this correct and if so I should still have received a notice of assignment, shouldnt I?
    Also, how can I tell if the printout they returned to me makes the debt enforceable?
    I am now feeling out of my depth and need help with my next steps as I am expecting another call from them this weekend. I appreciate any guidance that anyone can provide.
    Regards
    Tilly

  • #2
    Originally posted by seekassistance View Post
    Hi Everybody.
    In 2008 I got into financial difficulties with a number of credit cards but with the help of family I managed to settle all but one, a Halifax credit card (2005), who told me that I was too late to settle as it had been passed to a debt agency and it has been a dead weight ever since . My understanding, which I now think is my error, has always been that this debt was sold to Moorcroft. I had been paying Moorcroft on a monthly basis when out of the blue, I received a letter from the PRA Group October 16 stating that they had purchased the outstanding balance with Lloyds TSB Bank plc... I contacted PRA as I was confused as to what was happening. They told me that the debt had always been theirs and Moorcroft had been collecting it on their behalf. This did not seem right to me so I asked them for a copy of the notice of assignment. This verbal request took place in Nov 16 and to date, I have still not received a copy, even though I have made several verbal requests.
    In the meantime, I have been making monthly payments to PRA and have even tried to settle, again with assistance from family, but they rejected my offer and countered with an unachievable amount. This triggered me to send a CCA request, which I sent in October 17.
    So far the correspondence/contact has been as follows
    Oct 17 - PRA returned my £1 fee and said that they have requested the information required and placed the account on hold.
    6 weeks later - Nov 17 - letter received stating they have currently deemed the debt unenforceable but are awaiting further documentation. Also enclosed printout of monthly statements.
    2 days later - Nov 17 - letter received with some sort of printout which looks like agreement and instruction to call them within 10 days to come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle outstanding balance (£8900).


    6 days later - Phone call from PRA wanting to discuss debt and arrange settlement. I advised them that I had never received a notice of assignment and that I required a copy before going any further. They said they would send a copy and put the account on hold for another week.
    2 days later - PRA phoned again for the same reason as above. The previous caller had not updated their records with the conversation and so I had to go through the whole notice of assignment conversation again.
    I have just re- read the letter I received from Moorcroft in March 2009 and the wording says that they have been instructed by Halifax to collect the overdue debt. On looking into this further, my understanding is that Moorcroft are a debt collection agency and PRA are a debt purchasing company. Is this correct and if so I should still have received a notice of assignment, shouldnt I?
    Also, how can I tell if the printout they returned to me makes the debt enforceable?


    I am now feeling out of my depth and need help with my next steps as I am expecting another call from them this weekend. I appreciate any guidance that anyone can provide.
    Regards
    Tilly




    You need to send that CCA of Nov 17 to Niddy to look at https://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/for...pdated-06-2017
    Do this straight away.

    Then start and set out a Diary
    https://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/for...-read-me-first
    • Type of account (credit card/loan)
    • Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007)
    • Approx balance
    • Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
    • Are you on arrangement or not paying
    • Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
    • Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender)
    PRA are litigacious DO NOT contact them and if they contact you asked for everything in writing.
    Keep a note of times and dates of phone calls etc..

    It might be helpful here if you sent a SAR request to Lloyds Bank PLC (cost £10) there are Templates for this. This should establish what has happened to this Debt and when it was sold etc.

    My advice would be to start as above as soon as possible.
    Last edited by Roger; 13th December 2017, 20:46.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello

      Unless I've misunderstood your first post (it happens) the only debt purchaser chasing you at the moment is PRA for an ex-Halifax credit card account opened in 2005. Is that right?

      You sensibly sent them (PRA not Halifax or Moorcroft?) a section 77-79 CCA request on 17th October this year (2017).

      They (PRA) have sent you "what looks like an agreement" (your words not mine). Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. You need to have someone run forensics over what you've been sent since this is £9k debt and PRA are litigious.

      You say you feel out of your depth and want to know what your next step should be after dealing with this issue over the phone with PRA.

      My initial advice is to stay off the phone until you have established your legal position

      Di
      Legal Disclaimer

      I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

      Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Roger

        Thanks for your reply and advice.

        I have forwarded a copy of the CCA to Niddy. Not sure I understand the purpose of the diary fully.

        Regards
        Tilly

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Di

          Thank you for your reply

          Yes you are correct regarding PRA chasing a Halifax credit card debt. I have sent a copy of the CCA to Niddy as advised by Roger above and I will stay off of the phone until I hear back.

          Thanks for your help

          Regards
          Tilly

          Comment


          • #6
            The purpose of the diary is to have all the necessary information listed in an easy format for reference.
            I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

            If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

            Comment


            • #7
              Finally managed to complete Diary. I hope I am posting this in the right place..
              • HALIFAX (BANK of SCOTLAND)
              • Credit card
              • Pre 2007
              • Debt currently £8,900
              • Last paid (arrangement) Oct 2017
              • Creditor PRA
              March 2009 - Debt transferred to Moorcroft for collection on behalf of Halifax. Monthly arrangement set up with Moorcroft by direct debit and no payments missed.
              26 Oct 2016 – Letter from PRA stating they had purchased outstanding balance with Lloyds TSB Bank.
              2 Nov 2016 - I rang them as I did not relate to above debt due to no notification from Moorcroft and confused by Lloyds TSB Bank. I asked them for letter assignment, they referred me to Moorcroft. Rang them and they said they no longer had copies as everything had been sent to purchaser. Rang PRA again and advised of conversation. They said they would send a copy and would put account on hold for month.
              Dec 2016 – PRA phoned regarding payment. Assignment not received but agreed to pay £10 via manual payment monthly starting Jan 2017 but still required copy of assignment.
              Dec 2016 – Confirmation of Arrangement letter received.
              Jan - Oct 2017 – Monthly payments made
              26 Jun, 29 Jun, 26 Sep – PRA rang but I did not answer
              Oct 17 – I wrote to PRA and made a F&F offer of £3000 as a relative offered to loan me the money to get rid of the debt.
              Oct 17 – PRA replied via letter rejecting my offer and countering with an offer of £8046. Offer available until 5 Nov
              Oct 17 – I wrote to PRA requesting copy of CCA
              23 Oct 17 – PRA replied, returning fee and placing account on hold until document received
              29 Nov 17 – Letter received from PRA containing printouts of monthly summary of account and currently deeming the debt unenforceable but awaiting receipt of further documents to complete my request.
              2 Dec 17 – Letter received from PRA with copy documents as requested and instructions to contact office within 10 days. Documents enclosed were photocopies of 2 CCA 1974 and a photocopy of For Your Signature.
              8 Dec 17 - Phone call from PRA wanting to discuss debt and arrange settlement. I advised them that I had never received a notice of assignment and that I required a copy before going any further. They said they would send a copy and put the account on hold for another week.
              10 Dec 17 - PRA phoned again for the same reason as above. The previous caller had not updated their records with the conversation and so I had to go through the whole notice of assignment conversation again. Account put on hold for another week
              14 Dec 17 – Sent agreement to Niddy who thinks unenforceable
              19 Dec 17 – PRA sent Notice of Assignment letter
              Should I send off an SAR to Bank of Scotland (Lloyds TSB) to confirm that PRA have purchased this debt as I have not received anything from Moorcroft or the bank and ignore phone calls from PRA for now?

              Comment


              • #8
                Don’t make PRA aware of any errors as they are in your favour. It’s always good to get an SAR so you have the information to hand. Don’t talk to PRA on the phone. If they harass you, send the harrassment template letter.

                Others many have other suggestions.

                Good luck

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seekassistance View Post
                  wrote to PRA and made a F&F offer of £3000 as a relative offered to loan me
                  Was your F & F offer letter headed 'Without Prejudice'?

                  And yes you should send a SAR to Lloyds.

                  As has been said do not speak to PRA on the phone anymore.

                  Di

                  Legal Disclaimer

                  I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                  Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    HI Di

                    Thanks for your reply.

                    My offer was not headed 'Without Prejudice' - is this a mistake on my part? I don't know what without prejudice means in relation to an F & F offer.

                    Do I send the SAR request to the Bank of Scotland as this was the bank connected to the Halifax card even though PRA state Lloyds TSB on their correspondence.

                    I am a little apprehensive regarding sending an SAR request if it needs to go to Lloyds TSB. Do they only send information related to the relevant account or do they just search on personal details and send all information? The reason I ask is that my current account is with Lloyds TSB and I don' t want to do anything that may cause problems with my everyday banking. Maybe I am being niave but am working on the theory that communication between departments isn't great.

                    Regards
                    Tilly
                    Last edited by seekassistance; 12th January 2018, 23:46.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Send the SAR to Lloyds, don't over think or complicate this.
                      Many of Us are in the same situation with everyday banking and or Credit cards etc.. with the same Banks.
                      The SAR will reveal what information is held (and available to PRA) so that you can make informed judgments.
                      You are taking control of this rather than simply reacting. to PRA's threats and mind games!.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Diary updated as below


                        March 2009 - Debt transferred to Moorcroft for collection on behalf of Halifax. Monthly arrangement set up with Moorcroft by direct debit and no payments missed.


                        26 Oct 2016 – Letter from PRA stating they had purchased outstanding balance with Lloyds TSB Bank.


                        2 Nov 2016 - I rang them as I did not relate to above debt due to no notification from Moorcroft and confused by Lloyds TSB Bank. I asked them for letter assignment, they referred me to Moorcroft. Rang them and they said they no longer had copies as everything had been sent to purchaser. Rang PRA again and advised of conversation. They said they would send a copy and would put account on hold for month.


                        Dec 2016 – PRA phoned regarding payment. Assignment not received but agreed to pay £10 via manual payment monthly starting Jan 2017 but still required copy of assignment.


                        Dec 2016 – Confirmation of Arrangement letter received.


                        Jan - Oct 2017 – Monthly payments made


                        26 Jun, 29 Jun, 26 Sep – PRA rang but I did not answer


                        Oct 17 – I wrote to PRA and made a F&F offer of £3000 as a relative offered to loan me the money to get rid of the debt.


                        Oct 17 – PRA replied via letter rejecting my offer and countering with an offer of £8046. Offer available until 5 Nov


                        Oct 17 – I wrote to PRA requesting copy of CCA


                        23 Oct 17 – PRA replied, returning fee and placing account on hold until document received


                        29 Nov 17 – Letter received from PRA containing printouts of monthly summary of account and currently deeming the debt unenforceable but awaiting receipt of further documents to complete my request.


                        2 Dec 17 – Letter received from PRA with copy documents as requested and instructions to contact office within 10 days. Documents enclosed were photocopies of 2 CCA 1974 and a photocopy of For Your Signature.


                        8 Dec 17 - Phone call from PRA wanting to discuss debt and arrange settlement. I advised them that I had never received a notice of assignment and that I required a copy before going any further. They said they would send a copy and put the account on hold for another week.


                        10 Dec 17 - PRA phoned again for the same reason as above. The previous caller had not updated their records with the conversation and so I had to go through the whole notice of assignment conversation again. Account put on hold for another week


                        14 Dec 17 – Sent agreement to Niddy who thinks unenforceable


                        19 Dec 17 – PRA sent Notice of Assignment letter


                        9-15 Jan 2018 - Daily phonecall from PRA on landline and mobile -Did not answer, message to contact left on landline

                        17-20 Jan 2018 - Daily phonecall from PRA on landline and mobile -Did not answer, message to contact left on landline

                        22 -24 Jan 2018 - Daily phonecall from PRA on landline and mobile -Did not answer, message to contact left on landline




                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do not speak to them on the phone and send this letter https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum_c...20Template.doc
                          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                          If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            • HALIFAX (BANK of SCOTLAND)
                            • Credit card
                            • Pre 2007
                            • Debt currently £8,900
                            • Last paid (arrangement) Oct 2017
                            • Creditor PRA
                            March 2009 - Debt transferred to Moorcroft for collection on behalf of Halifax. Monthly arrangement set up with Moorcroft by direct debit and no payments missed.
                            26 Oct 2016 – Letter from PRA stating they had purchased outstanding balance with Lloyds TSB Bank.
                            2 Nov 2016 - I rang them as I did not relate to above debt due to no notification from Moorcroft and confused by Lloyds TSB Bank. I asked them for letter assignment, they referred me to Moorcroft. Rang them and they said they no longer had copies as everything had been sent to purchaser. Rang PRA again and advised of conversation. They said they would send a copy and would put account on hold for month
                            Dec 2016 – PRA phoned regarding payment. Assignment not received but agreed to pay £10 via manual payment monthly starting Jan 2017 but still required copy of assignment.
                            Dec 2016 – Confirmation of Arrangement letter received.
                            Jan - Oct 2017 – Monthly payments made
                            26 Jun, 29 Jun, 26 Sep – PRA rang but I did not answer
                            Oct 17 – I wrote to PRA and made a F&F offer of £3000 as a relative offered to loan me the money to get rid of the debt.
                            Oct 17 – PRA replied via letter rejecting my offer and countering with an offer of £8046. Offer available until 5 Nov
                            Oct 17 – I wrote to PRA requesting copy of CCA
                            23 Oct 17 – PRA replied, returning fee and placing account on hold until document received
                            29 Nov 17 – Letter received from PRA containing printouts of monthly summary of account and currently deeming the debt unenforceable but awaiting receipt of further documents to complete my request.
                            2 Dec 17 – Letter received from PRA with copy documents as requested and instructions to contact office within 10 days. Documents enclosed were photocopies of 2 CCA 1974 and a photocopy of For Your Signature.
                            8 Dec 17 - Phone call from PRA wanting to discuss debt and arrange settlement. I advised them that I had never received a notice of assignment and that I required a copy before going any further. They said they would send a copy and put the account on hold for another week.
                            10 Dec 17 - PRA phoned again for the same reason as above. The previous caller had not updated their records with the conversation and so I had to go through the whole notice of assignment conversation again. Account put on hold for another week
                            14 Dec 17 – Sent agreement to Niddy who thinks unenforceable
                            19 Dec 17 – PRA sent Notice of Assignment letter
                            9-15 Jan 2018 - Daily phonecall from PRA on landline and mobile -Did not answer, message to contact left on landline
                            17-20 Jan 2018 - Daily phonecall from PRA on landline and mobile -Did not answer, message to contact left on landline

                            22 -24 Jan 2018 - Daily phonecall from PRA on landline and mobile -Did not answer, message to contact left on landline


                            6 Feb 18 - No further telephone calls but letter now received asking that I set up a repayment plan at a discounted price to pay as a one off payment or three or six monthly payments. The discounted amount is the same as previously quoted in Oct 17 representing a 10% discount. The letter states that this offer is only available until the end of the month.

                            I will not be making contact but does anyone have any thoughts as to what may/may not happen next?

                            Regards

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Be careful with PRA they are very litigious and will often issue a claim hoping to get a judgement by default. They should send you a letter before claim using new protocol before issuing a claim. I received 2 letters before claim and they hadn't provided any documents requested and issued a claim anyway.

                              Comment

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